While rejoining the Paris Agreement on climate might make us feel better, diplomacy is not enough to fix our growing problems. On this podcast, David Victor of the University of California, San Diego joins us. He, along with Charles Sabel, of Columbia Law School, have written the book, “Fixing the Climate: Strategies for an Uncertain World.” In order to decarbonize the economy, they say we must integrate bottom-up, local experimentation with top-down, global cooperation. A model for what they envision can be found by going back to the late 1980’s and examining the ‘experimentalist governance’ approach used to address the depletion of the ozone layer through the Montreal Protocols. Experimentalist governance involves creativity and innovation in all sectors, at every level. It is neither top-down, like a hierarchy, nor bottom-up, like self-governing group. It’s a set of disruptive innovations that break through current interests and reveal whole new approaches to dealing with the issue. The good news is much of this is going on today, but the harder question to answer is whether it will all come together in time to spare mankind and the planet the worst impacts.