Defund the police? Provide less immunity for their bad acts? Create a national standard for their training and ways to de-escalate a situation? Augment the term public safety to include social workers and mental health specialists? Depending upon who you talk to, all of these matters are part of the concept of ‘police reform’. The defunding concept is the most controversial and least likely to gain traction as the victories of Joe Biden as president and Eric Adams as the Democratic mayoral stand bearer in New York City, demonstrate. Both men made it a point to cast that notion aside. And even communities of color, often in the news because of their tragic interactions with police, want better policing, not necessarily less of it. Our guest, Nila Bala, is the senior staff attorney for the Policing Project at NYU School of Law. We explores the subtleties and complexities of this topic.